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Pinned to the top of Elon Musk’s X account is a six-minute clip of his recent three-hour interview with the podcaster Joe Rogan.
“This is why the Democrats want to destroy me,” Musk says, previewing the clip, in which he explains a cynical view of the US political system where, he says, Democrats are plotting to use entitlement spending such as Social Security, Medicare and disability payments to lure undocumented immigrants – he calls them “illegals” – into the US in order to take over the American government for all time.
What Musk alleges would be a truly frightening thing if there were evidence that what he says is correct. There is not. It does bear some similarities to Trump’s allegation that migrants are “poisoning the blood” of the country or the far right “replacement theory.”
Musk hasn’t provided any evidence that large numbers of undocumented people vote in US elections. He hasn’t provided any evidence that large numbers of undocumented people are getting Social Security benefits, Medicare or disability, and he hasn’t provided any evidence that Democrats are actively plotting against him for exposing these allegations for which he has provided no evidence. (He does face serious pushback for his efforts to dismantle elements of the federal government.)
There’s an argument that paranoid conspiracy theories like this should not be amplified, but this particular conspiracy theory appears to be behind Musk’s talk about the need to modify Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement spending programs.
It’s certainly true that spending on these programs has the country on an unsustainable fiscal path, but Musk isn’t talking about them as legitimate programs that need reform. He’s talking about them as fraudulent schemes, something that would surprise the tens of millions of American citizens who rely on them.
Rogan appears to have his mind blown by Musk’s conspiracy theory and Musk encourages listeners to “do your own research” to verify his claims.
In that vein, here’s a starter kit to in fact do your own research on some of the things he says.
MUSK: Why is the Democrat propaganda machine so fired up to destroy me? That’s. The main reason. The main reason is that is that entitlements fraud – that includes, like, Social Security, disability, Medicaid – entitlements fraud for illegal aliens is what is serving as a gigantic magnetic force to pull people in from all around the world and keep them here. Like basically, if you, if you pay people at a standard of living that is above 90% of Earth, then you have a very powerful incentive for 90% of Earth to come here and to stay here. But if you, if you end the illegal alien fraud, then you turn off that magnet, and they leave. They stop coming, and the ones that are here, many of them will simply leave. And if that happens, a massive – they will lose a massive number of Democratic voters.
Where to begin? It is not legal for the undocumented to apply for Social Security, Medicare or disability, although any undocumented person for whom an employer makes payroll tax deductions is paying into the system. So, contrary to what Musk says, the undocumented are actually helping to pay for the benefits of American citizens. Some legal immigrants are able to access these programs, but it takes time for them to qualify.
CNN’s Catherine Shoichet has explored this issue. Read more.
Why do people actually immigrate to the US? KFF and the LA Times conducted a survey in 2023 and the main reasons cited for immigration, according to KFF, are “for better work and educational opportunities, a better future for their children, and more rights and freedoms.” They add: “Smaller but still sizeable shares cite other factors such as joining family members or escaping unsafe or violent conditions.”
US citizenship is required to vote in federal elections and nearly all state elections. So deporting the undocumented or making life so miserable that millions of them self-deport should not cost either party voters.
ROGAN: And if it didn’t happen, they would turn those people into voters.
MUSK: Correct.
The last person to grant amnesty to a large number of undocumented citizens was Republican President Ronald Reagan, working with a Congress controlled by Democrats. Every president since George W. Bush, another Republican, has tried (or talked about) and failed to finalize a comprehensive, bipartisan immigration plan that could provide a path to citizenship for the millions of people in the country illegally. Any such path would be long and arduous in those proposals.
ROGAN: Which they were trying to do.
MUSK: They’re already turning them – so in New York State, illegal aliens can already vote in state and city elections. A lot of people don’t know that. I mean, they try to fight that. They’re trying to stop that, but it’s, they’re currently, I think it’s like 600,000 are registered to vote. Illegal aliens in New York.
ROGAN: That is wild!
It’s also not true. New York City did try to give noncitizens the right to vote in local elections in 2021, but, as CNN wrote at the time, the privilege was only granted to “noncitizens who have lived in the city for at least 30 days and are legal permanent residents in the US – including green card holders, individuals with workers permits and DACA holders.”
And that was only for local city elections. But the law was never implemented, and it is still the subject of a court battle.
MUSK: What’s actually happening is they’re buying voters. That’s really what’s happening. It’s like, it’s like a giant voter fraud scam. They’re importing voters (sigh) and, and it’s really just a matter of time. So like, a lot of people have trouble believing this, but if you – the more you look at it, the more you will realize just how much of a problem this is and how it’s, it’s not just real – it is an attempt to destroy democracy in America. That’s what, in my view, is what it really is.
Again, noncitizens cannot vote in federal elections. Undocumented migrants, even more so, cannot vote in federal elections. There is no pathway to citizenship for the undocumented. There are decades of failed efforts to create a long and arduous pathway to citizenship. Multiple efforts had bipartisan support, but not enough to get through both the House and Senate. But nobody is talking seriously about them right now.
MUSK: If you take the seven swing states, like, often the margin of victory there is, like, maybe 20,000 votes. If you put 200,000 illegals in there, and they have, like an 80% likelihood of voting Dem, and it’s only a matter of time before they become citizens, then those swing states will not be swing states in the future. And if they’re not swing states, we will be a permanent one-party state country. Permanent deep-blue socialist state. That’s what America will become.
ROGAN: And that was the game plan.
MUSK: That was – that was (the) game plan, that is still the game plan. They almost succeeded. If the machine of which the Kamala puppet was the representation had won, that’s what would have happened.
There’s no evidence of widespread undocumented voter fraud. It’s also worth noting here that the parties are not exactly monoliths. There are moderates in both major political parties. When one party is perceived as over-reaching, the other party gets more votes and wins the next election. Musk does not believe the system will work.
MUSK: The reason I went so hard-core for Trump was because, to me, this was a fork in the road. Like a very obvious fork in the road. If they had another four years, they would legalize enough illegals in the swing states to make the swing states not swing states. They would just, they would be blue states. Then they would win the presidential – they would win the House, the Senate, the presidency. They would then make (the) District, DC, into a state, maybe Puerto Rico, get four extra senators, pack the Supreme Court, so then you’ll have the House, judiciary, Senate, the presidency, and then they will keep importing more illegals to cement that outcome. Basically, what happened in California.
ROGAN: Jesus Christ!
MUSK: It would have been the end. That’s why I went so hard-core for Trump. It would otherwise have been the end, and that’s why the, the Democrat machine is so intent on destroying me.
Swing states shift over time. When one states turns red or blue, another state comes into play. Ohio is now red and Virginia is now blue, for instance, which might surprise anyone who was watching politics in the early 2000s. Arizona and Georgia, however, have both become swing states. Yes, California used to be a reliably Republican state and produced two Republican presidents. But then, Texas, where Musk and Rogan are now based, in the past often voted for Democrats.
ROGAN: It’s just so fascinating that people can’t see this.
MUSK: I mean, I invite people to do their research, the more they do the research, the more they will see that what I’m saying is absolutely true.
Yes, please do research!
